Can you tell us about your latest film project and the process you went through in bringing it to life?

We are currently doing the festival circuit with our short film “The Untranslatable Forest”. What was initially a brief collaboration we were going to do between both co-directors that sparked during pandemic and extended for 3 years of production ended up becoming, to our own surprise, a short film that is being shown in festivals around the world. 

 

The creative process was interesting as we developed it totally remotely- Ivan from Oakland and Andy from Long Beach. We discussed a topic, we settled on a script and Ivan created a storyboard first, a visual bible, and afterwards a sequence of styleframes (concept art through photo retouching that shows what the final look should be) per scene. Then Andy built the models from scratch to match the styleframes (or even implement them), the textures, the lighting… and then animated them according to notes and rendered everything. Then Ivan took the sequences back to postproduce the look, add visual elements and some 2D text sequences. We did an animatic and a boardmatic before animation, and a real edit with the footage in low-res that informed us that sometimes we needed a frame or even a second more for some specific shots.  We did all this with zero budget and then came the music, voiceover and sound design phase at the end of the whole thing.

 

As we had a totally developed visual aspect, when we suggested to Kronos Quartet using their music, it was very easy for them to see how it would click and the style and quality of the piecethan if we had sent them a very early animation instead. They could judge much better into what their music was going into. Fortunately, they were aboard and they allowed us to use a piece of their catalogue. We choose “Le Bois” because its themes were very close to what we wanted to convey. similar mood and intention. Already with some small budget Ivan provided we got voice overs to support the texts and a great sound mixing by the argentinian sound studio “Ronroco Audio”

 

What inspired you to become a filmmaker and pursue a career in the film industry?

It’s something that was there from the inception of each of our separate careers. One does not end up as a motion designer and visual artist without an interest in filmmaking. We would even probably both say that wanting to become filmmakers was what moved us first to become visual artists and then pursue a career in the film industry.

 

For Andy, starting to make work with a deeper meaning and telling richer stories than the commercial work made a perfect vehicle for filmmaking. In the case of Ivan, filmmaking was an itch he always wanted to scratch. Long afternoons watching movies with his family and later on working as a video store clerk nurtured his love for cinema. The movies of James Cameron, Sam Raimi, Akira Kurosawa, Alejandro Amenabar or Nacho Vigalondo were big cinema-schools in themselves. 

 

What challenges did you encounter during the filmmaking process and how did you overcome them?

As mentioned, this was a long term project where we totally embraced doing it as a passion project. 

 

Zero budget meant having to extend the process to do professional work that could pay our bills first and dedicate extra hours for this project, which really made the whole thing an endurance challenge. 

 

Spending three years creating a specific narrative without knowing how it is going to be perceived by peers and audiences is grinding. It feels like digging a hole where you are burying yourself.  Doubts about whether it will ever be finished, a lot of work and hours that you could spend with family, friends or paid work instead. To get it done we had to make personal sacrifices and even story wise make sacrifices - a scene was cut to shorten the production a bit, but does not impact the narrative. It is a vale of tears until you finally cross it.

 

Now we know how much of a miracle any finished animated film is, even if it's a two-and-a-half minute short film, like ours.

 

Also there were additional complications, working remotely in our extra time meant delivering the material to each other sometimes without the whole context, sometimes that meant Andy having to guess Ivan’s intentions in some specific moments of the narrative.  When a camera suddenly changes direction, what is the reason behind it? How quick should it move? What prompted it? A story such as this one full of visual metaphors needs a lot of unpacking when you are creating it. In the end, nothing that couldn't be resolved through communication, sharing points of view and arriving at compromises. Small issues that might not have popped up if we could have had our full time dedicated to the project and been in the same room.

 

In any case, all these challenges were also blessings in disguise because they gave us more time to think deeper about every decision and small details that added more value to every image.

 

What was the most memorable moment for you during the production of your film?

Can you share any interesting anecdotes or behind-the-scenes stories from the making of your film?

The first one that comes to mind is that originally we developed a different script about NASA’ s Golden Record. Also a micro-documentary of sorts but much more classic in structure, less experiential and experimental than “The Untranslatable Forest ” is. But we set it aside because we thought it was going to take a long time to develop and we didn’t want to invest a lot of time. Three years later we can fairly say that the joke is on us.

 

Also many times the core of a film appears not necessarily in its conception but during its development, as is the case in our short. The piece of text that is revealed at the end of the short, and makes you reconsider everything that you have seen, wasn't in our first conversations and script, but appeared before the completion of the first storyboard. As soon as we found that information we knew how relevant it was. It became the heart and center of everything we were telling, even if we weren't referencing it directly, so that the information would be more shocking when we finally provide it.

 

An additional relevant point for us was, once we decided to add voices and dedicate some budget to the film, was that the text would be read out by native speakers of language, not just to be sure of having the words pronounced correctly, but also to give some room to hear real ESL speakers. Many times what we hear in films and what is provided by many voice actors were impersonations of how ESL sounds, but in this way we are sure of giving some representation and deeper realism. It meant having to be sure that wouldn't just sound good to us, but actually be representative.

 

How do you approach storytelling in your films? What themes or messages do you try to convey? What is your preferred genre of filmmaking and why? Are there any specific directors or filmmakers who have influenced your work?

Up to this point, we both have been dedicated to commercial work for the majority of our careers, and this our first excursion into filmmaking as such. 

 

In this area, Ivan feels more attracted towards topics the mainstream doesn't cover, like languages, refugee displacement… He guesses that  we could cover it under the umbrella of empathy and expanding our narrow POV. Andy gravitates more towards nature, art and other cultures. Environmental beauty is an important and recurring theme in his personal work.

 

Genre-wise, Ivan is a sucker for science fiction, terror and fantasy even if he defines himself as an omnivore of any genre, and he feels that the stories that really resonate with him are ones that aren't as easy to put in one category and narratively challenge the audience. Both aspects are brought to this story, even if it's closer to a documentary than anything else. 

 

Andy  gravitates toward dramas and abstract visual arts, especially the ones with a deeper meaning. Anything that pushes narrative and creativity has Andy’s attention.

 

Directors-wise, there is a broad range of influences, if we focus on the short itself, the short follows an almost main titles kind of narrative, so the work of Kyle Cooper, Angus Wall and Karing Fong are relevant, from a narrative point of view Stanley Kubrick, Andrei Tartovsky, David Fincher, David Lynch, Ridley Scott and Satoshi Kon were big influences in one way or another. 

 

How do you select your cast and crew for your film projects? What qualities do you look for in collaborators?

We would resume it to a mix of quality of work, how their profile fits to the specific role of the film and if they feel passionate about the message of the story too. You don't always need “warriors” (as Jodorowsky would say) that would die for it but definitely you need them attuned to the story even if they do it just for the paycheck. We don't look for “Yes men” as any idea can grow with a different point of view, but also it is hard to move a project along having to redirect or compromise every step of the way.

 

How important do you think film festivals are for independent filmmakers, and what has been your experience with film festivals so far?

It's essential, many times it’s the only way to bring something new to the game, whether we’re talking about artists or narratively. They allow the audience to access storytelling that is complicated to find in main broadcast or streaming, and sheds some light on other kind of projects which may miss the budget to find channels to access an audience eager for their kind of stories, or to show the industry your abilities through a commercial way that can be mined by nepotism. So far our experience with festivals has been great, each is different in their unique way but the short is resonating with audiences all around the world being welcomed by festivals of different countries. As filmmakers it is great meeting other creators, being exposed to their unique storytelling and to be able to discuss how to bring projects forward with them. 

 

Can you tell us about any awards or recognition your films have received and how they have impacted your career?

This short is being the piece that is perhaps giving us the biggest recognition, having won accolades in several festivals (Best microshort in Portland Animation and Technology Festival, where it was nominated too for Best Breakthrough Animation and Outstanding Cultural Contribution, Jury honorable mention in the documentary category in Girona’s Film Festival, Best Super Short in Goyang Moving Image Festival, Best Human Rights short in the Chicago Shorts, “We Care” award in Fabriano Film festival, finalist in the New York animation film awards, semifinalist in the Miami Shorts Festival and Dumbo Film Festival)  Seeing something we have worked on a big screen in front of audiences enjoying our work, has been life changing in itself.

 

As motion designer, Ivan had a commercial piece he directed shortlisted in the ADC (Art Directors Club) awards, has received 3 Silver Laus awards (Spanish awards for Design and Visual Communication), and 1 Gold and 2 Silver CdeC awards (Spanish creative circle) for a variety of campaigns. 

Someone once said that something awards do is open other people’s ears/eyes: next time you say or do something they will pay more attention to it. So it is more of a cumulative effect than anything else.

 

How do you handle feedback and criticism of your films? How do you use it to improve your craft?

Feedback is a great way to polish a piece and make it even better, it is awesome when there can be a conversation around it. Many times it also gives you a second chance to reiterate your work, making a second or third pass now with a new perspective. Many eyes can bring many perspectives to make your work better.

 

At the same time it can be tricky accepting any criticism or feedback. Artistic filmmaking, unlike graphic design, is more a personal expression, and trying to keep everyone's notes can make you totally miss the message or feeling you wanted to evoke, and end up with a piece done by committee. As Stephen King says in his book “On Writing” if everybody tells you there is a problem in a chapter they are right, but it's on you to figure out how to resolve it correctly.

 

What do you enjoy most about the process of filmmaking? Is there anything you find particularly challenging?

For Andy the sharing ideas and the collaborative side are the most enjoyable part of the process. Working through problems as a team is what helps him the most against burnout. Especially in a long term project such as this one. For Ivan is ideation, gathering visual references, setting the tone, storyboarding, being on set (not for this film) editing… almost anything other than looking for grants or ways to get a budget. the way grants have to be written and submitted it feels almost like a way of gatekeeping. The fact that grant writing exists as a profession in itself tells you how complicated it can be.

 

How do you approach the distribution of your films? What strategies do you employ to reach a wider audience?

We are not reinventing the wheel in this regard. We have an instagram account for the several accolades the short is getting, together with some quotes by festivals in regard to the short. Initially we are trusting on doing the festival circuit to reach the biggest audience and connect with people that would allow us to amplify the message of the short.

 

But on the other hand, we have some experiences around the short to make it a little bit more lasting for the audience. We have a website where we gather articles around the topics of the short, so the ones interested on the topic can find curated content about it. Also for the screenings, we have also created a postcard that we deliver to the assisting crowd that allows them to enjoy an AR version of our poster (apart from links to our social media and website)

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With our unique short, we have two objectives at once, reaching out to people so the message reaches as many people as possible, and from another making a difference in the topic, dedicating the benefits the short is doing in the festival circuit to a non profit related to subject matter. So far we have donated $700, which might not be as much, but taking into consideration that the short was created at zero budget for most of its production, it is something we are proud about

 

What advice do you have for aspiring filmmakers who are just starting their journey in the film industry?

Be careful because it is much more work than you are thinking it is. Research all the phases to realize the amount of work that it entails and how to tackle it properly. But also, be reckless and jump into it no matter what, because at the end of the day the only way to have this done is by being brave.

 

Finally, can you share with us your future plans and upcoming projects as a filmmaker?

Right now we don't have any project on the horizon together. We are going to enjoy the tail end of the festival circuit for The Untranslatable Forest and then take some time before we find something that is worth the investment in time, effort and budget. Probably doing some commercial work in the meantime before each deciding what will be their next big thing. Something soon enough though.